Thoughts and Amusings

It is said that when part of the church hurts we all hurt. Oh God might that be so. May we be on our knees for those in the west and the east , in the north and the south where violence jars the image of the peace of the Christ Child.


On Sunday in America the church of New Life and YWAM (in 2 different places and locations) were affected by shootings.

The shooting at New Life Church saw Matthew Murray, a former Homeschool student from a religious family (didn’t attend the church) kill two sisters and injure several others. It is here where God’s grace, mercy, wisdom and all those other words that I want to be start to glimmer despite the horror.


Murray was killed by an armed female security volunteer at the church before police arrived. The security guard was not on duty but felt the Holy Spirit urge her to take her gun that day**.HT boundlessline Despite the shooter wearing a bullet proof vest, the guard's aim killed the shooter and in effect saved hundreds of lives as he did not get that far into the building. There were 7000 people in worship when the shooting erupted. They were safely evacutated downstairs to a basement where they stayed for 4/5 hours as the church ground was cleared of a range of smoke generating devices around the grounds.

It is here where I am in awe of the people of New Life and God’s work in them :

Ashley Gibbs was getting into a car with David Harris when they heard the gunshots — a sound like someone kicking ice from the side of a car, she said.Harris said he saw the gunman, and it looked like he knew how to handle a weapon…… They stayed in the vehicle and prayed for the gunman. "It was obvious that he was in some sort of pain and going through a lot," Gibbs told "Today." "I just prayed God would bring him peace– Fox News

From the press conference – quotes from Pastor of New Life, Brady Boyd.

... our hearts go out to the family of this young man, the attacker, he has a mom and dad somewhere, he has a family, and we want them to know that at New
Life Church we are praying for them. We know that there is a grieving process
for them as well, and we certainly are praying for that family

We had a detailed evacuation plan in place given all kinds of scenarios, and had a large group of people that knew what to do, we had places on our campus that were designated as holding areas, and people were taken there immediately. People were ushered off the campus or taken to safe places. We had security details in each of those locations to keep people safe. That's the reality of our world. I don't think any of us grew up in churches where that was a reality, but today it is. So we prepared in advance for that, and because of that, although we are grieving today because of the loss of two lives, hundreds of lives were saved because of the plan we had in place. We are grateful to God for giving us the wisdom to do that and for protecting us yesterday.

** I am not one in favour of Arms control, however this is not what this post is about. The fact that this is what this woman felt she was urged to do by the HS is what is at call here. One's cultural perceptions (of arms control or any other matter) should not get in the way of allowing God to move or in being able to see God move. It is a sad day when ones cultural perceptions become moral absolutes. You may like to refer to my previous post on this issue....

One Christian book that has had a major influence on my life has been the visual addition of 'What's so Amazing about Grace' by Phillip Yancy in that book there is a page where the authors and illustrators have juxtaposed some Christian people picketing with the idea of Grace.

I am constantly in agony at myself and at my Christian brothers when we choose to stand and shout at non Christians rather than roll up our sleeves and be Jesus in a situation.

One organization who I think do this brilliantly (be Jesus in a situation) are xxxchurch.com

XXXchurch is the #1 Christian porn site designed to bring awareness to the porn problem. From the United States, Australia, Asia, and Europe, XXXchurch is a movement of people and ministries putting accountability to those struggling with porn and those calling porn a career."

XXXchurch.com runs a Christian anti-pornography website that aims to help those who struggle with pornography. Its target are those who are consumers (including christians and non christians) and those in pornographic industry.

Perhaps one of the key things they do (which links back to what I have said) is they hand out bibles to people who attend porn shows. (they will be attending one in Auckland next year doing this very thing). This has many 'conservative' Christians riled up, but I will let you think and pray it through for yourself after watching the two different forms of communicating Jesus to those at Porn Events in action.

My thanks to digger randle for this link (digger was the youth minister off 1 vs 100 who one $98 000 the other night - well it was a few months ago now as we are ages behind here in kiwiland) Anyway, I visited his blog and found this fascinating article from a couple of months ago form The Age in Australia regarding an ex Hillsong Member.

A couple of quotes to whet your appetite -

For five years, Tanya Levin was a Hillsong insider - infatuated with the evangelical church and its leader. Then she left and wrote a book. Now she's trouble, writes David Marr.....

.....So Tanya Levin is a problem. She asks questions. She wants explanations. She challenges the vision of Hillsong's leadership. In short, she's trouble. ....

.....Two years into writing People in Glass Houses, her insider's account of Hillsong, she was shown the door. "There is no debate within Hillsong," she says. "That's fundamentalism. It's not open to free thought and question, not at all....."

".....My impressions in September of 1985 were of a bunch of nice people," Levin writes. They waved their hands and spoke in tongues. Houston preached. "Even today," she confesses, "when I hear Brian Houston's voice I feel better....."

....For Levin, the core lie of Hillsong is the claim that God will repay everything you give. And the longer you have to wait, the greater the return. "How do you actually stand in front of people and say if you give me your money God will give it back to you and actually sleep at night when you're taking old people's money. It's obviously the more desperate people who want to make an investment decision like that. Very vulnerable people...."

....Levin doesn't fit that picture. She doesn't hate. Something in her seems to yearn for those exhilarating years fighting the good fight against the devil in all his disguises right down to the voodoo beat of rock'n'roll. "We were told you can't have it because it's incantation and you're going to raise all these demons." How different things are now. Levin begins to sing some Hillsong Christian trance music: "Doof, doof, doof. Christ is the future. Doof doof doof..."

I highly reccomend you go over and read the article It is a very very good read pop on over .

This months Christianity today also has a good article from a slightly different perspective

Christians for some bizarre reason have a very annoying habit of turning up to events late and/ or handing important things in late. I really don’t know what this is about. I sure don’t know what the biblical principle behind it is. God help me I have tried to understand certain members of my Christian circle who think they have the right to waste an hour of my life while they turn up an hour late to events/ meetings/ gatherings. However I really don’t get it.

Sure I can understand 5 even 10 minutes, things happen, but the ‘I’ll-be-there-when-I-get-there-Jesus-Cruisin’ ‘attitude is not just bizarre it’s a very poor witness. The other night I was out with sister (not Christian) I had arranged dinner with 3 christian friends for 6pm. The first friend arrived at 6.50. My sister was not only annoyed, but also discussed with me that my friends obviously don’t respect me very much, she was quite looking forward to the dinner but spent the whole night worried as we had ordered too much food for people who never arrived.

There is no point in ‘evangelising’ if your whole life doesn’t show it, this means how you interact with other Christians impacts your interaction with non Christians and how you show you value others.

Hello blog shadowers (which is most of you) , friends and people who drop by

The Parachute 08 line up has been announced. Many people have commented on the lack of quality of the line up and I tend to agree visit here or here however as I grow in my Christian walk my problem lies at a much deeper issue than just the music. Here are my problems.

1) Israel Houghton is one of the headline artists. Now while I am not going to doubt that he has sold millions of albums and he has won some fantastic awards even in the mainstream my problem lies with the theology in the lyrics he is singing. As we have discussed at this blog before (well, some of us) Israel Houghton is the one who bought us Cover the earth, and also I am a friend of God. Houghton is on the worship team of Joel Osteen at Lakewood Church, Texas. While I am not one to say this makes one guilty of Osteens 'theology' *cough*, by association, I would think that if Houghton is serving in this way (as worship member) at Lakewood church it would mean he sees his theology as being able to line up with the church's.

2) Another one of our main headliners is a band called Jonzetta (yes that’s right they are a headliner). Now I will openly admit right here in front of you the blogging public that I am in no way perfect and sin all the time. I also come from the school that says all sin is equal. However I do find this following piece of footage from Jonzetta strange to say the least (the point in question is about 40 seconds in )

my point being are parachute looking for culturally relevant people? Is this what spacifix and so on were preparing us for? Is culturally relevant really the angle we want to take? Or am I just being a little too precious and should Christians start swearing more (because Jesus probably would have) ?

3) The music line up itself is debatable however if you want to discuss that go over here

The idea of suffering as part of the Christian faith is not that popular. In fact as a new Christian when I found out that martyrdom was a 'spiritual gift' that some Christians were 'blessed' to have in one of those 'find your gifting courses' I was incredibly reassured by a line that said that veryt few people in Gods family were 'blessed' with this gift. All joking aside, Modern day Western Christianity often has a hard time fitting suffering into its theology. Due to the incredible uprise of the Prosperity gospel it is seen as necessary for one to have 'health, wealth and success' in order for one to be a successful Christian.

Jesus clearly taught that his followers would endure suffering most obviously his sacrifice but also read through the sermon on the mount, this was part of his call of being an obedient follower of Christ (Matthew 5)

I wonder if Western Christians are a bit like the reciepients of the book of Hebrews.

Some of the things the reciepients of the Hebrews had were a great liking for the Old testament ( a bit like prosperity followers) and also some deep seated conscience issues to follow the 'right way' even though had a very skewed idea on what this was (even though it was well supported with some out of context bible verses) .

They had lost how suffering fitted into Faith and got side tracked into a whole lot of frivalous stuff (some of it with the best of intentions) that they thought would take them closer to God.

This led the author of the book to say this to them and I think they are very good words to ponder:

Hebrews 10
32Remember those earlier days after you had received the light, when you stood your ground in a great contest in the face of suffering. 33Sometimes you were publicly exposed to insult and persecution; at other times you stood side by side with those who were so treated. 34You sympathized with those in prison and joyfully accepted the confiscation of your property, because you knew that you yourselves had better and lasting possessions.
35So do not throw away your confidence; it will be richly rewarded. 36You need to persevere so that when you have done the will of God, you will receive what he has promised. 37For in just a very little while, "He who is coming will come and will not delay. 38But my righteous one will live by faith. And if he shrinks back, I will not be pleased with him 39But we are not of those who shrink back and are destroyed, but of those who believe and are saved.

I wonder when was the last time you ever heard a sermon on suffering / read an article on it?

Have we disconnected suffering from our contemporary theology or do we only speak about it on special occasions? If suffering is a daily occasion for the persecuted church, how come we hear very little of it in the western church?

Yesterday in the mail my monthly mag from VOM arrived detailing the Happenings? Events? Life? of Christians in Perscuted countries around the world. This months feature was on Laos and includes some absolutely beautiful and heart wrenching stories that bring one into the true reality of Gods grace.

However before we comfort ourselves in the fact that we are not the ones in the persecuted countires and click over to some other well meaning form of escapism can I encourage you to watch this video its a life changer, Its hard hitting and I make absolutely no apologies for it. The reality is that while dieing for ones faith as a Christian isn't a day to day reality in western countries. Regardless of where one is or who one is in Christ , one should have faith in what and who one believes and be able to stand up for it if the time comes.

God give me strength if I am ever in a situation like this

As I have said before lyrics to worship songs need to be theologically sound. As this is unfortunately where many people get their theology from, as it is a known fact that even in evanglical circles Christians don't tend to do a heck of a lot of Bible reading. In knowing this fact, the song below just scares me with how theologically inept it is, despite the fact that the music to it is really good (which is one reason I think it is gaining popularity in church circles) .

In recent times there has started to be a trend for people to be positively critical of the sermons they hear , however this hasn't been carried along to music as much which is deeply concerning. Anyway now for the song in question, with my remarks in brackets.

Cover the earth

Let me be an instrument
To exalt and to extend
Jesus’ name globally (sounds okay so far, in fact I'm all for the first 3 lines)
As the waters cover the sea (whats this line about and how exactly does it relate??)
Open the heavens O Lord
And pour out Your Spirit

Cover the earth with Your glory
Cover the earth with Your glory
Cover the earth with the sound of heaven (any ideas what the sound of heaven is)
Cover the earth with Your glory
Cover the earth with Your glory
Cover the earth with the sound of heaven
Cover the earth

Let me speak what You say (which would be? .........)
Let the sound prepare the way (right, the sound)
Kingdom come globally
As the waters cover the sea (yes the waters, we can't forget the waters)
Open the heavens O Lord
Pour out Your Spirit

Cover the earth with Your glory
Cover the earth with Your glory
Cover the earth with the sound of heaven
All of the earth is Yours
All of the nations adore You (this is news to me, and the persecuted church)
Cover the earth with the sound of heaven (here comes the sound again, ...)
Cover the earth

Open up the heavenlies (what the heck are the heavenlies when they are at home)
Let a new sound be released (were we sick of the old sound and is sound different to the sound we were talking about before?)
As the waters cover the sea (can't forget the waters)
Cover the earth

A combination of factors have had me thinking about Christianity and leadership lately.

For one the recent debacle over the Christian Party or the lack of one and a rather interesting sermon that I listened to on Sunday that I disagreed with! However a conversation I had with a very good friend made me think that maybe the issue of where we go wrong as Christians and leadership actually goes back to the fact that many Christians are just down right (hold your breath here) idiotic.

This particular friend told me that at his church the previous youth pastor had a policy that youth leaders were not allowed to be in leadership unless they were from a Christian home. Yes folks you heard right. Evidently they ‘made the best leaders’ Goodness help us if the apostle Paul had wanted to be a leader at his church. I really have no idea what exegesis of what Biblical passage this particular belief is held on. It obviously wasn’t anything from Galatians anyway.

Anyway I think Paul is actually a good example of a leader for Christians in a secular environment in anytype of ministry or mission (hence all of us) to emanate.

* Paul constantly reflected back to Jesus and that true wisdom came from here (1 Corinthians 1-4)
*Paul took risks for the sake of the gospel
* Paul persevered through incredible trials
* Paul invested in future leaders and in christian communities
* Paul was not afraid to pull people up (Galatians, 2 Thess, Colossians) or conversely answer criticism in a loving way (2 Corinthians)
* Paul invested in those who others thought could not be leaders (Gentiles, those with mixed heritage, women) and conversely understood the liberating principle that regardless of our cultural standing or past we are all one in Christ Jesus.
* Where Paul was under attack or made a mistake he went back and sort to rectify it (Corinthians)
* Paul was knowledgeable about the cultures he was in ( cf Speech at Athenian Areopagus Acts 17 to Acts 28 where he is speaking to Jews)
* Paul was willing to invest time into his charges – note the amount of time he spent with his churches – 3 years in Ephesus on one of his Journeys.
* Paul was not a user of people (skills /talents) but was genuinely interested in the person and people, see the extended greetings in the letters and his heart felt pleas .
* Paul was open about his feelings, this was not seen as a sign of weakness but was genuinely appreciated in the Christian communities in which he worked (see Corinthians)

I had an interesting weekend away with a group of youth leaders from my church at a farm. Interesting, is the word I use when I can't be bothered explaining the mix of emotions, experiences and all that it encompassed. A brief summary:

• Marshmallow toasting
• Fantastic food
• Interpretive dance
• Settlers of Catan
• Charades (I had to act out Albertine by Brooke Fraser - can I just say that is a flippin' hard one to do)
• Me doing masses of study for BCNZ paper
• A nasty spiritual attack that left me in masses of pain for most of sunday morning
• Listening to Life Fm - we were very excited about this! (don't get that in wellington)
• A lot of discussion.
• Finding out the true lyrics to a 'Fray' song ..... turns out I have been singing something that wasn't there....... in my defence I wasn't the only one!
• Oooh and yes ...I got the leaders to Bongo themselves :P (highly entertaining)

Anyway one of the things we discussed was community. In fact the debate got quite heated at times. There was argument that Christian's rely far to much on online community and use it too much (which I disagree on) and there was argument that we needed to become more like the Acts 2 church.

So my questions for you are (you can pick one or both)

1. What would you define community as?
2. Do christians rely on online community too much?

For all of the 'Left Behind' book and movie fans out their........ and for all of those who just don't get people who are so 'caught up' ( if you pardon the pun) in rapture stuff.

Kudos to think christian

Warning - you will either love this clip or hate it.

Make this your common practice: Confess your sins to each other and pray for each other so that you can live together whole and healed. The prayer of a person living right with God is something powerful to be reckoned with. - James

I admire the church in Acts for many reasons. Despite its faults I really like the community that the early church had. True community meant living together, performing the odd miracle, communal living (by some) and a real commitment to face matters of conflict head on. In doing so the early church really had a great desire to keep each other accountable to truely following the gospel (see Acts 15/Galatians 2 for more)

Many modern church communities have lost much of these basic accountability principles. In our desire to be 'accepting and loving' (which I am all for) we tend to ignore many unbiblical behaviours of our brothers and sisters and don't keep each other accountable. We smile , or we cringe, rather than lovingly confront. We laugh at someones actions that are hurtful or we cry on the inside, but we do little to confront the issue at hand.

I recently heard someone say that they wouldn't confront a Christian brother or sister unless a situation was 'really bad'. I have to ask: Does that mean you will ignore the 10 repeated things that lead up to the situation before it gets really bad (and conversely the 10 or more people they could be affecting by their actions)? If we are meant to be becoming more like Jesus every day, how is waiting for someone to get worse helping them do that?

Do we truely wish to keep each other accountable in the pursuit of holiness?

Do we truely know what is going on in those in our christian community?


Some points to ponder from post secret:

Make this your common practice: Confess your sins to each other and pray for each other so that you can live together whole and healed. The prayer of a person living right with God is something powerful to be reckoned with. - James

I am a Public Transport junkie. I am proud to say that. As much grief as I get from many a person, including many a Christian brother and sister I am proud to say I enjoy it.

My public transport journeys often see me taking buses with the type of people I imagine Jesus would hang out with right now if he were here. (Then I remind myself - I am Jesus to these people)

Take yesterday for example. Our suburban bus pulls into a supermarket bus stop. We pick up Mum, Aunty, Grandma (who looked like she was all of 40 years old) and 3 kids. The two eldest boys were twins and were aged about 3. The youngest was about 18 months. Man did they smell. They smelt like they hadn't had a shower in days, and by the looks of them they hadn't. The kids were literally thrown into the bus by the adults. But man were they beautiful. This is not the type of family folks that is likely to go to your mainly music club, or your MOPS programme etc etc. Anyway. Twin A speant most of the journey staring at me (all other family members were ignoring this particular child, they were too busy eating or talking about something). Twin A had been squashed in between the gap in the seats* and was trying to stand but kept getting thrown around as we went around corners (*the place where one seat goes forward and one goes backward the bit where people are meant to put their shopping bags). Twin B speant the majority of the journey climbing over the seats and getting told off by mum before reaching out to me, deciding that he rather liked the looks of my ticket.

If you haven't taken public transport lately (and i am not talking about a crappy commuter train) you need too. Mix with people. Get out of your comfort zone.

It will give you real perspective on life and where everyday people are at and believe me contrary to popular belief everyday people are not talking about interest rates, 'Amazing Grace' or what is happening at your (or possibliy any) church.

You don't need to sit and read your Bible (or recite it out loud , so people know you are a Christian) You don't need to turn up your Ipod loud so people can hear your Jesus tunes.
How about just LISTENING and being with people, it will give you perspective - plus you may even help the environment.

Sam and Lily get out of the busy traffic and escape into the quiet of a cafe and reflect on the latest movie - it made them good to feel a Christian. Wasn't it good to know that slavery was all over?

'Good movie that Amazing Grace? ay Lily?'

'Yeah great Movie?'

'Wasn't William Wilberforce wonderful,'

'Isn't it great all that slavery stuff is done with now? '

'Yeah less work for us to do Sam, i mean that guy was certainly persistant, it was so annoying that those others wouldn't help him , I mean how could you not see the injustice in people being held against their will ......'

sips coffee ( where are the coffee beans from?)

'beats me..... it makes me so so angry ...Lily!!'

They pull up a video off Youtube recommended by a friend off their latest whizz gadget phone (totally essential item)

'I don't get it! Sam what the frickin heck is the video on about that was a little whack!'
------------------
Yes well , it is really!

• At least 12.3 million people are victims of forced labour worldwide. Of these 2.4 million are as a result of human trafficking.
• 600,000-800,000 men, women and children trafficked across international borders each year. Approximately 80 per cent are women and girls. Up to 50% are minors.
• An estimated 1.2 million children trafficked each year.
• The majority of trafficked victims arguably come from the poorest countries and poorest strata of the national population.
• Trafficking is the fastest growing means by which people are caught in the trap of slavery.
• Human trafficking is the third largest source of income for organised crime, exceeded only by arms and drugs trafficking. UN office on drugs and crime
• People are trafficked into prostitution, begging, forced labour, military service, domestic service, forced illegal adoption, forced marriage etc: Types of recruitment; include abduction, false agreement with parents, sold by parents, runaways, travel with family, orphans sold from street or institutions.
  

http://www.stopthetraffik.org/ - be the difference. What Wilberforce started we have to continue. Its always more than 'just a movie'

Now I must admit that my Christian theology is a mish mash of a variety of perspectives and is very post-emrgent sympathetic. In saying that I am not a Rob Bell devotee i.e. I do not own all his DVDs , nor have I even read his books (shock horror). I have though watched a fair whack of his NOOMA stuff and discussed his Velvet Elvis ideas with many of my friends.

The following two clips are on evangelism

Bell contends that all street evangelism (with bullhorns and placards and such) does not share Jesus' love or the Christian message adequately as it seperates loving God and loving others.




This guy here though has a different point of view:




What is your point of view? Can we have both? Or is Rob Bell right? Or the last guy right?

At last a Bible that fits my every need :P


NOTE: (look very carefully at the list of languages) It has Maori!

The prize for most interesting blog post I have read this week goes to Solo Feminity (link down the side of the page) and this link described by the blog author Carolyn McCulley as an
'interview with Kelly McMillen, the bride of Rob McMillen and new mother of Dorothy Rose...The goal of these interviews is to help us think both biblically and realistically about marriage and what life is like when the honeymoon is over and the real living begins'

Yes the article even includes submission .... (I didn't cringe when I read it this time) this is either a sign that I am growing up in my Christianity or have become immune to conservative christian christianize, although I hope it is the former.

Interestingly titled: Killing An Attitude of Entitlement

It's long but very very interesting article - a couple of quotes to get you going.

. What was the biggest surprise to you after marriage? I think I may have believed that submission, as biblically defined, would be easier than it actually is. I had such a desire to be married, to serve a godly husband, and to learn how to be a godly, submissive wife. So I guess perhaps I thought this strong desire would make me better at it. (Ha ha!) I never anticipated how many times we would disagree on small things, mostly matters of preference, and how I was not at all entitled to have my own way on these things just because they were small, or just because they fell under the category of home management, or for any other reason

4. How do you think single woman should pursue/prepare for marriage?

....
(6) Look for ways to encourage the men in your circle to lead. Don’t try to be the ‘leader’ in group situations where there are men present, even if those men might not be the strongest leaders you know. If you really feel like you have unique gifting appropriate for the situation, perhaps ask them what you can do to help, rather than just ‘taking charge’. It will help you to practice a peaceful and gentle spirit in preparation for what it looks like to submit in marriage, and it will encourage growth in their leadership.

What is one thing about men you learned after marriage? I think I have learned, and am learning, that biblical leadership is just as hard for them as biblical submission is for us. (Just look at Genesis 3 - it’s because of the fall, in both cases!) I think I was tempted in the beginning to think that men have it easier than women because as leaders, they have the final say on decisions. But they bear a lot of responsibility in this regard. They are one day going to be held accountable before God for how they led their wife and family. Not to mention the fact that their leadership should be primarily characterized by sacrificial love. So, it isn’t enough for them to just be good decision-makers. God knows their hearts and sees when they are leading sacrificially versus when they are leading from self-interest....

GO READ........ OFF YOU GO

A while back many of us did one of those cutesy little ‘what type of Christian ‘ are you surveys. Nice. Easy. Didn’t involve much thought. However when the rubber hits the road and you are asked what you really believe you can’t really say ‘I’m 75% Post-modern’. The problem with a lot of Evangelical Christians is that if you asked them (including me up until a few weeks ago) to define my beliefs, all I would have been able to say to you was about this – Jesus, God, Grace and Love (although some evangelicals could tell you where they stood on smacking).

Why is this important you may ask………. Well yesterday I had a discussion where my beliefs were confronted about Calvinism vs. Arminisiam and also about whether the Canon of Revelation is closed. Yes.

That my blog readers is why it helps to know what you believe, more than just saying something cutesy like ‘I believe Jesus loves me’ which while true is not very helpful when one is confronted about how people work out their salvation.

So I am taking off the awesome Challies (for 1 and 2) who defined what it is to be ‘Reformed’ as to what my beliefs are, in fact at times I am quoting him. (My thanks also to wikipedia for articulating bits of what it is to be Baptist 3 and 4 )

THE FUNDAMENTALS OF LISA’S BELIEFS

1. To confess the consensus of the five first centuries of the church:
o Classic theism: One omnipotent, benevolent God, distinct from creation.
o Nicene and Chalcedonian Trinitarianism: one God in three eternally existent persons, equal in power and glory.
o Christ, the God-Man, the one mediator between God & the human race, incarnate, crucified, resurrected, ascended, & coming again.
o Humanity created in the image of God, yet tragically fallen & profoundly in need of restoration to God through Christ.
o The Visible Church: the community of the redeemed, indwelt by the Holy Spirit; the mystical body of Christ on earth.
o The one, holy, catholic (NOT Catholic - if you are confused email me) , and apostolic church.
o The Sacraments: visible signs and seals of the grace of God, ministering Christ's love to us in our deep need.
o The Christian life: characterized by the prime theological virtues of faith, hope, and love.

2) Solar power – I mean sola power .
Now up until a couple of days ago the only one of these that I knew as a ‘sola’ was scriptua. But it turns out the others are all things that I believe in but have ‘sola’ names, that sum them up concisely.
o The authority of Scripture: sola scriptura (Scripture alone)
o the basis of salvation: Sola Gratia (Grace alone)
o the means of salvation: Sola Fide (Faith alone)
o the merit of salvation: Solus Christus (Christ alone)

3) What it means to be a BAPTIST as opposed to being something else. You know how when you are in a culture you eat up what is around you sometimes subconsciously. Well here it is clearly defined. In a nice little acrostic – who said wikipedia wasn’t worthwhile?
• Biblical authority (Mat 24:35; 1Pet 1:23; 2Tim 3:16-17)
• Autonomy of the local church (Mat 18:15-17; 1Cor 6:1-3)
• Priesthood of all believers (1Pet 2:5-9; 1Tim 5)
• Two ordinances (believer's baptism and the Lord's Supper) (Acts 2:41-47; 1Cor 11:23-32)
• Individual soul liberty - the right of my brothers and sisters in Christ to have different opinions than me! (Rom 14:5-12)
• Separation of Church and State (Mat 22:15-22)
• Two offices of the church (pastor and deacon) (1Tim 3:1-13; Tit 1-2)

4) The four freedoms
Soul freedom: the soul is competent before God, and capable of making decisions in matters of faith without coercion or compulsion by any larger religious or civil body
Church freedom: freedom of the local church from outside interference
Bible freedom: the individual is free to interpret the Bible for themselves using the best tools available
Religious freedom: free to choose their religion, another religion, or no religion;

NOTE ; NA STANDS FOR NEW ATTITUDE a conference for college students in the US currently being held at the moment. To comment on this article direct to the author (Motte Brown) click here of course I would like it too if you commented here :)

Na: Mark Dever on Christian Disagreement
by Motte Brown on May 27, 2007 at 5:44 PM
Mark Dever began his talk this morning with, "Oh how the devil must hate this conference. He must be displeased with this message of discernment, which teaches us how to repudiate him."

I first heard Mark preach exactly 10 days after praying with Senate Chaplin Dr. Lloyd Ogilvie that the Lord would reveal himself to me. And though I don't know exactly when salvation occurred, I know that hearing Pastor Dever for the first time was like eating the most delicious meal I had ever had; like eating the food that C.S. Lewis describes in the land of Narnia. It was satisfying in a way I had never experienced.

It's been 11 years since then. It was great to hear him again.

Mark warned that this talk would be "dense" and "long." It was, thankfully. He gave a very practical, hour and a half message on what Christians should agree upon, what we may disagree about, and how to do it well. Here's a brief summary.

First, in order to determine what Christian should agree upon, you need to evaluate the circumstance. In other words, all Christians do not have to agree on all matters, all the time. For example, a husband and wife need to be on a higher level of agreement than friends or acquaintances; and Christians who go the same church need to be in agreement on a higher level than say, writers and readers of the Boundless Line blog.

With that established, Mark said there are three things on which every Christian must agree: God, The Bible, and The Gospel. He said simply that 1) we must believe in the one true God; the triune God; that He was not made; that He functions as our sovereign Creator and our Judge; and that He is the one we are called to believe in; 2) we must believe that the Bible is inerrant; that God has revealed himself in the Bible, that that's how we know what God is like; and 3) we must believe that Jesus Christ became incarnate and that we are justified before God only through him.

As for doctrine on which sincere believers may disagree, Mark gives four test cases: the millennium, prayers for the dead, complimentarian vs. egalitarian, and evangelism. Not that these things don't matter, they're just non-essential. He rhetorically asks, "Can you have an Evangelical who believes in having women in church leadership? Of course you can. Is it a good idea? No." (Lisa Comment - HELLO - REALLY - so now we think we have authority to label the good christians and the bad christians do we?)

Finally, Mark says that when we must disagree, let's make sure it's evident that we care more about each other than winning the argument. He says that it should always be done with love, respect and sometimes by heeding Romans 14:22, "So whatever you believe about these things keep between yourself and God. Blessed is the man who does not condemn himself by what he approves."

I spoke with Mark afterward and thanked him for message. He said, "I hope it was helpful." It was.

By any accounts getting any opinion out of the 11 readers per day who read this blog , is like trying to get peace in the middle east, but i mean really, what do we think of this .................. I don't really have an opinion as of yet so here is your forum ..... especially you oh mystery reader from Christchurch College of Education.......

DEAR BOUNDLESS ANSWERS

What do you think about Christian singles living with members of the opposite sex? I have two friends (a man and a woman) who work for a college campus ministry organization, and live in a house together.

All told, there are four young men and the woman living in this house. My male friend has a girlfriend, but the rest of the young men and the woman are all single. I say that unmarried men and women should not live together, whether they are dating, cohabitating or just roommates. I seem to be the only one in my Bible study with this opinion.

Since my friends are merely roommates, and not romantically involved, everyone else seems to think their living arrangement is acceptable. I say it's not, since it is not a good witness and goes against what we all profess about couples not living together before marriage.

What are your thoughts?

REPLY

You are dead on. It is a very poor witness for Christian singles of the opposite sex — in ministry no less! — to be living in the same house together. They are damaging their credibility as Christians and especially leaders in ministry.

What if a single young guy and girl who attend their campus ministry meetings want to move in together "just as roommates"? What will their counsel be? "Well, the two of you shouldn't do that, because it looks bad, but if you can find about 3 or 4 other guys or girls it's OK." Huh?

Christians who believe it's OK to have opposite-sex roommates or housemates (we'll leave cohabiting for another time) have made two very significant mistakes in their thinking.

One, they have agreed with the feminists, who for 40 years have tried to get us to believe that, outside a few plumbing issues, men and women are essentially the same, that there is nothing uniquely masculine about men, nor feminine about women. We can be great buddies, fight alongside each other in combat, share public restrooms, and live together! This flies in the face of scripture. Men and women aren't the same. To throw a girl in the mix of a bunch of guys living together, and think it's essentially the same as throwing another guy in there, is a victory for the feminists. "Oh, we won't be tempted sexually, we're just friends!" And all the feminists said, "Amen!" (Of course the feminists wouldn't care so much about temptation — casual hook ups are like shaking hands).

Two, as Christians these young people have a responsibility to live in such a way that it benefits and builds up others. 1 Corinthians 10:23-24 says, "'All things are lawful,' but not all things are helpful. 'All things are lawful,' but not all things build up. Let no one seek his own good, but the good of his neighbor." In a college setting, where the hook-up culture is doing everything it can to tear down healthy relationships between guys and girls, Christians should be making every effort to live as counter-cultural to that as possible. Opposite-sex roommates send a weak message to a world that desperately needs a salt-saturated standard.

I hope you'll keep urging them to change their living arrangements, for their sake, for the sake of those who are watching them, and for the Lord's sake, who commands us to "do all to the glory of God."